After the administration pushed the CIA into giving them bad intelligence on the matter. If that had not happened, then Clinton and Kerry would not have agreed there were those weapons in Iraq. And who is president now? Not Clinton. Not Kerry. It is Obama. And did he believe there were WMD?
It's funny, you lefties ignore the fact that Hillary Clinton and John Kerry agreed there were WMD in Iraq. In fact, I think your boy, slick Willy did, too.
I hardly think the world has been safer with regard to terrorists since 911... What about the anthrax attacks, the shoe bomber, the Bali bombings, the bombings of the Madrid underground, the bombings of the London underground, the dozens and dozens of suicide bombings in Israel, the the carbombings and roadside bombings and truck bombings and improvised explosive devices and beheadings and shootings in Iraq, the second round of Bali bombings, the bombing of the Australian Embassy in Djakarta, the bombing attacks in India, the bombings in Russia, the bombings in the Phillippines, the assassination of Benazir Bhutto, the attack on the Westerners' compound in Riadh,the recent attacks on Mumbai, and those are just off the top of my head. It seems to me that the crackdowns are motivating them more than they are intimidating them, and with America's increased security, who pays the cost in human life? More Americans have died in the Iraq war (Saddam never had a thing to do with 911) than September 11. And who have been locked up? Yes, there were some actual terrorists, and they should STAY locked up, but there were a lot of people who were NOT terrorists, just people who were turned in because of tribal or other kinds of rivalries. And they were sent to Guantnanamo for seven years and tortured. And what kind of information does torture provide? Not much of real value. The Chinese and Nazis and Soviets and North Vietnmese and South Vietnamese and North Koreans and South Koreans and the Spanish Inquisition and all the other countries and groups who have used torture have used it for one thing: To get false confessions. To get them to confess to war crimes live on TV, to make them renounce their religion, to get them to sign a blank piece of paper for their confession to be typed out later, to come out with testimony to convict whatever the regime's political rivals are, or to simply punish those being tortured, When used in trying to gain intelligence, it is usually flawed intelligence, as they will say whatever comes to mind, deliberate misinformation, or they will simply make up stuff if they honestly do not know the answers to the interrogator's questions. As an information source, torture is couterproductive far more times than not.
Probably yes from the view of the terorrists, but as I see it, America's resolve to act decisively on terrorists; immediately put a stop to more such terrorist attacks, given the many promises that more attacks would be perpetrated on the American people, on American soil, right on their front door steps. I am sure American's were thankful for that period which has now ended. If America gets weak-kneed again, boldness will surely rise again and the American public will pay the price. Obama extended a friendly hand to Iran this week and Iran took the opportunity to immeditately set conditions, we want this, we want that etc. Clearly it is leaders exposing their own people to dangers is what I see, and for what? Their own popularity rating ? Obama I think is playing with fire, which will be hard for him to extinguish once it ignites.
A lot of things are illegal even the trashing of the twin tower in NY. It should not have happened. The important thing is to ensure there is no repetition isn't it? If these thugs feel that the US is getting weaker they will attack again. The only way to stop bullying is to show to them that you can retaliate if they try again. We used to be bullied at boarding school and we plotted our retaliation by rubbing ripe chilli on the clothing (shorts, towels and underwears while hanging in the clothe lines) of the bullies. You should see a person wriggle when the chilli begins to work its way up to and into asses and testies; while attending class or after a nice shower or during the school parade. Its so bloody hot it is inhuman - but it solves our problems "the bullying just stops". They know we did it so they show us a bit of respect. We were small but we were big in retaliating because we use their own clothes - some even begin to distrust their own clothes but they can't go around naked! Comparatively a bleeding nose is nothing compared to the chilli solution in one's butt.
I said they would be forced to legally let them go, because of this malfeasance. I did not say that this was a good thing. The big problem is that a lot of what happened was illegal, both under international law and under US law. What SHOULD have happened, is there SHOULD have been more thought put into it, more care taken when they were actually arrested, which would have resulted in innocent people going free (and some innocent people were given to American forces due to tribal or personal rivalries) and would also have led to more dependable intelligence, since torture only results in undependable intelligence. And no truly guilty people would be free today. One particular individual who legally had to be released is now heading up a terrorist organisation in Yemen.
The worst of the worst will not go free. They will be put in other prisons. The big problem is, that a lot of them were tortured, held against the laws of the Geneva Conventions, If the bad guys get away, it is because the US government has been forced legally to let them go. This sort of thing happens when due process is not followed.
what a load of bs
In what way can it be termed a success? Relative to what?
After the administration pushed the CIA into giving them bad intelligence on the matter. If that had not happened, then Clinton and Kerry would not have agreed there were those weapons in Iraq. And who is president now? Not Clinton. Not Kerry. It is Obama. And did he believe there were WMD?
Iraq is turning out to be a success story given the report of the last provincial elections. I hope Obama will not now spoil the progress there.
It's funny, you lefties ignore the fact that Hillary Clinton and John Kerry agreed there were WMD in Iraq. In fact, I think your boy, slick Willy did, too.
I hardly think the world has been safer with regard to terrorists since 911... What about the anthrax attacks, the shoe bomber, the Bali bombings, the bombings of the Madrid underground, the bombings of the London underground, the dozens and dozens of suicide bombings in Israel, the the carbombings and roadside bombings and truck bombings and improvised explosive devices and beheadings and shootings in Iraq, the second round of Bali bombings, the bombing of the Australian Embassy in Djakarta, the bombing attacks in India, the bombings in Russia, the bombings in the Phillippines, the assassination of Benazir Bhutto, the attack on the Westerners' compound in Riadh,the recent attacks on Mumbai, and those are just off the top of my head. It seems to me that the crackdowns are motivating them more than they are intimidating them, and with America's increased security, who pays the cost in human life? More Americans have died in the Iraq war (Saddam never had a thing to do with 911) than September 11. And who have been locked up? Yes, there were some actual terrorists, and they should STAY locked up, but there were a lot of people who were NOT terrorists, just people who were turned in because of tribal or other kinds of rivalries. And they were sent to Guantnanamo for seven years and tortured. And what kind of information does torture provide? Not much of real value. The Chinese and Nazis and Soviets and North Vietnmese and South Vietnamese and North Koreans and South Koreans and the Spanish Inquisition and all the other countries and groups who have used torture have used it for one thing: To get false confessions. To get them to confess to war crimes live on TV, to make them renounce their religion, to get them to sign a blank piece of paper for their confession to be typed out later, to come out with testimony to convict whatever the regime's political rivals are, or to simply punish those being tortured, When used in trying to gain intelligence, it is usually flawed intelligence, as they will say whatever comes to mind, deliberate misinformation, or they will simply make up stuff if they honestly do not know the answers to the interrogator's questions. As an information source, torture is couterproductive far more times than not.
Probably yes from the view of the terorrists, but as I see it, America's resolve to act decisively on terrorists; immediately put a stop to more such terrorist attacks, given the many promises that more attacks would be perpetrated on the American people, on American soil, right on their front door steps. I am sure American's were thankful for that period which has now ended. If America gets weak-kneed again, boldness will surely rise again and the American public will pay the price. Obama extended a friendly hand to Iran this week and Iran took the opportunity to immeditately set conditions, we want this, we want that etc. Clearly it is leaders exposing their own people to dangers is what I see, and for what? Their own popularity rating ? Obama I think is playing with fire, which will be hard for him to extinguish once it ignites.
But what if the terrorists consider the US a bully? In that case, the chili incident is the equivalent of September 11.
A lot of things are illegal even the trashing of the twin tower in NY. It should not have happened. The important thing is to ensure there is no repetition isn't it? If these thugs feel that the US is getting weaker they will attack again. The only way to stop bullying is to show to them that you can retaliate if they try again. We used to be bullied at boarding school and we plotted our retaliation by rubbing ripe chilli on the clothing (shorts, towels and underwears while hanging in the clothe lines) of the bullies. You should see a person wriggle when the chilli begins to work its way up to and into asses and testies; while attending class or after a nice shower or during the school parade. Its so bloody hot it is inhuman - but it solves our problems "the bullying just stops". They know we did it so they show us a bit of respect. We were small but we were big in retaliating because we use their own clothes - some even begin to distrust their own clothes but they can't go around naked! Comparatively a bleeding nose is nothing compared to the chilli solution in one's butt.
They announced that it would be shut down. Actually shutting it down and rehousing the prisoners takes more time.
I don't buy it.Not for a second.
Yeah right. anyway, didn't they already shut that place down, like during Obama's first week in office?
I said they would be forced to legally let them go, because of this malfeasance. I did not say that this was a good thing. The big problem is that a lot of what happened was illegal, both under international law and under US law. What SHOULD have happened, is there SHOULD have been more thought put into it, more care taken when they were actually arrested, which would have resulted in innocent people going free (and some innocent people were given to American forces due to tribal or personal rivalries) and would also have led to more dependable intelligence, since torture only results in undependable intelligence. And no truly guilty people would be free today. One particular individual who legally had to be released is now heading up a terrorist organisation in Yemen.
you gonna let some of them come to your town phil?
The worst of the worst will not go free. They will be put in other prisons. The big problem is, that a lot of them were tortured, held against the laws of the Geneva Conventions, If the bad guys get away, it is because the US government has been forced legally to let them go. This sort of thing happens when due process is not followed.